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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Nov 30, 2005 9:35pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

Look, I all think as DeadHeads we're on the same side here. I just object to the thousands of us who were upset by this decision being labelled as "whiners."

It is a simple matter of expressing one's dissent, and more than anything I think those who objected to the SBD's being pulled did so as much b/c of the principle of the action than the actual inability to access them from this site.

The economic argument, that the band members have a right to secure their "kids' futures" or what have you, has been addressed as well. There is no question that purchases made through GD.NET, were, for this DeadHead at least, INCREASED by the shows made available on this site. Before I found this site, I only ocassionaly peeked into GD.NET b/c the DP releases were so slow in coming (one every 3 months, I think). But reading reviews of shows on this site, being able to DL great sounding recordings, etc., re-charged by Dead battery, and I found myself going to the official web site more and more to PURCHASE items found there...for the excellent quality, packaging ,etc.

It is also very important to remember that the Dead always said, and Phil's comments now reflect the fact, that this has always been a partnership between band and fans, moreso than any musical act in history. Had it not been for 1) the band allowing the taping and 2) the Heads actively circulating those tapes, the Dead would never have become to monster touring and money-making giant they were. Don't forget also that Jerry's daughter thanked the Heads who gathered for his memorial in SF that without them she would have had to put herself through college working at McDonald's. Clearly the fans gave a lot to a band that never would have been able to continue doing what they do solely through record sales and radio play.

To suggest that fans who traveled incredible distances over nearly 4 decades to see the shows and now would appreciate access to the best quality versions of those shows via modern realities represnted by sites like this as somehow feeling "entitled" is inaccurate at best and a cheap shot at worst.

Not one person posting to the forums on this site ever to my knowledge complained about a DP, vault, DVD or any other pending release being pulled from the archive. But to remove all the SBD's and leave just AUD shows for streaming only--no downloading--IS in fact a philosphical and practical shift in the very essence of what fostered the band-fan partnership to begin with. To object to that, and to ask reasonably why it's being done, is not "whining"...it's a reflection of passionate fans who CARE about the music expressing themselves and their displeasure--that such devoted fans are willing to disagree with that band is indicative of the smart and independent spirit of the fans.

I would agree to the "whining" assessment only if one expresses the displeasure in a hostile or unncessarily profane manner. Otherwise, telling the people who object to the policy to "shut up and stop whining" is a lazy way of advocating a kind of censorship I doubt Jerry for one would support.

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Poster: dubspgh Date: Dec 1, 2005 4:23am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I am thrilled that after all these years, there are still fans who care enough to share their opinions on the band. I am convinced that if everyone who had the opportunity the band play is able to combine oral tradition with the availability of so many shows that have been preserved for posterity, then the impact that the boys have had on a few generations of humanity might continue for decades to come. The fact that the band shared their intellectual property so freely, with so many, for so long should be celebrated by everyone. The fact that the family is facing the issue of how to provide for those to come put them in the position that resulted in the very temporary attempt to limit access to the thousands of hours of joyful noise that is the band's legacy should not cloud anyone's gratitude for the many years of wonder and excitement that the boys brought to the world. Peace.

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Poster: luvlight72 Date: Dec 2, 2005 2:24am
Forum: etree Subject: Phil's Response

Here is Phil's response to what happened. As I hoped he had nothing to do with this decision. Hopefully he will do something to rectify the situation. I'm kinda confused on how the decision can be made about music he created, without his permission. I guess it shows the true reality who "The Dead" are in 2005. Get your Ipods ready. Itunes will have all the shows available for $$$$

http://www.phillesh.net/philzonepages/friends_stuff/hotline.html

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Poster: dubspgh Date: Dec 2, 2005 2:36am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil's Response

Thanks for the head's up. I think people sometimes confuse generosity with entitlement. As to who is making decisions for the band, without including the input from the surviving memebers, well that's just bad business.

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Poster: nikos Date: Dec 2, 2005 6:20pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil's Response

Hi there, this is a confused Deadhead from Greece.. I have not been able to form a clear picture of what actually happened in what order, who said what, etc. I've read messages by many people heaping abuse on Phil, yet on his site he dissociates himself from the decision.. I read Barlow said it was Weir, Hart, and Kreutzmann, others say it was Jerry's widow.. Is there a link to a clear exposition of the whole sorry affair?
The GD have a right of course to handle their music as they like.. Though restricting the archive seems a really bad decision in terms of their non-music legacy and commercially, as many folks here have pointed out..
I would like to add only that if Mickey Hart is the driving force behind the decision, there should not be a problem: He's not on the best Grateful Dead shows, those from 1972-74. When he returned in 1976 the band had to accomodate a second drummer and changed direction (the free-flowing days of the sixties when the 2-drummer format worked, were long gone), to the detriment of the music. The rest of the band can make those 1972-74 shows available and we will all be happy..

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 2, 2005 10:52pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Timeline links

Hi Nikos, indeed so much has occurred that it's hard to keep straight! Our FAQ here is still even an update behind (hope to revise this weekend).

Here are two excellent summary links:
http://deadnews.blogspot.com/2005/12/grateful-dead-download-controversy.html
http://www.themusicneverstopped.net/archives/2005/12/gdlma_the_final.html

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-12-03 06:52:40

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Poster: nikos Date: Dec 3, 2005 7:01pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Timeline links

Dear Diana,
Thank you for the links; the deadnews link in particular does indeed clarify the sequence of events.

Maybe this is a good point to summarise the arguments:

THE GD ORGANISATION SIDE
- Band members are normal people with normal material needs and have themselves and families to support now that they are not touring.
[Comment: and may have adopted expensive life-styles that are catching up with their finances].
- Dick's Picks and official downloads are (and will be) available at reasonable prices.
[Comment: the Dick's Picks sets are very good value indeed. Not so the downloads, especially for people in countries where high-speed internet is still expensive (like my country, Greece)]
- Tape trading in the old days fostered a community spirit and contact between people, unlike impersonal downloads on a PC. Downloading entire years on hard discs is not in the spirit of collecting favorite shows, which is how this started.
[Comment: I think they may have a point there]

THE DEADHEAD SIDE
- The music has always been freely available in the community, and the community has generally treated it with respect, without making money from it. Why change now?
- Most deadheads buy official GD music on CDs and DVDs and other merchandise. I don't have the numbers, but I would imagine that total sales are far, far higher than the average for comparable acts or artists. GD fans form a demographically very attractive market segment (right age group, high percentage of university graduates, generally affluent) which the GD organisation has now managed to alienate.

QUESTION: TO BOYCOTT THE GDSTORE OR NOT TO BOYCOTT?
I guess that is a subjective decision. For my part, if they put out a deluxe version of May 8, 1977 with a 20-page booklet, unissued photos and signed t-shirt, I will NOT buy (though I probably would before the archive affair). If they show they still care for the real fans, say by giving us October 23, 1972, a Dark Star from the golden days which the people in the GD organisation must know most fans don't have in decent sound, then I would.

Nikos,
Athens, Greece

This post was modified by nikos on 2005-12-04 02:29:55

This post was modified by nikos on 2005-12-04 03:01:31

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Poster: bangtailpoet Date: Dec 2, 2005 6:39pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Phil's Response

We're all as confused as you are. There has been no real official explanation. Phil says he was not involved. Barlow implicated "the drummers." McNally said the shows were pulled b/c the LMA did not reflect Grateful Dead values (whatever that means), but then had to quickly backpedal when they decided to let the AUDs go back up as downloads and the SBDs as streams. A new GD website popped up yesterday, with hints that more shows from the archive will soon be available for download at a price. There are several online petitions and a call to boycott all GDM merchandise until the GD recordings are restored to the LMA. Right now, it is not entirely clear what is going on or who is ultimately responsible.

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Poster: Packy Date: Dec 1, 2005 4:12am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I second that emotion!

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Poster: tpwDawg Date: Dec 1, 2005 1:42pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I'm humbled by your reason and polite way of telling me to stop whining about the whining. ;)

I suppose we're all expressing grief in our own way. Afterall, we've lost a convenient place to access some of the best music human ears have been fortunate to hear.

Seems we're on the same page when it comes to some of the more cantankerous methods of expression.

Either way, it's a shame, but it is what it is and I don't begrudge the "estate's" decisions. I'm grateful to them, the band, and the men and women running this site.

PEACE to ALL